Transmuting Avoidance, Embracing Inspiration, Action, and Challenges

[00:00:00] Dorota: But, you know, it started with, I asked the question on the group and I never do it, and I didn't get the answer. And then someone posted your, or you posted, I don't know, your video on, uh. Bypassing.

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[00:00:15] Zane: Oh, yeah.

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[00:00:17] Dorota: Yeah. And it was like, oh my goodness, I must be doing that. And then, you know, I, I went on and watched some videos, also the interviews.

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[00:00:28] Zane: Mm-hmm.

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[00:00:28] Dorota: And, um, it gave me a lot of clarity as to, you know, what, what's going on, you know, for, for me, because I am actually in total, uh, avoidance. Okay. As I, I have, you know, realized despite, you know, very, very intense work for the last 10, you know, like, you know, inner work for the last 10 years, even doing, you know, somatic work, everything.

[00:00:54] But still I'm stuck and, you know, uh, and this is like, you are in a cage. You know, you are in a cage and you cannot leave. There is a poem by Rilke of panther that is, you know, trodding the cage and you see the wildness there, but she's still in the cage. But the cage, of course, is illusional.

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[00:01:14] Zane: It's like the hamster's wheel.

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[00:01:16] Dorota: Yeah. It's something like that. So, yeah. Uh, so, and the things that I get confusion about, you know, when I get confusion, it means this is a good, you know, good road to follow, uh, is, uh, about, you know, inspiration, desire, you know, waiting for the, you know, for this, you know, the, the, the, the, you know, the, the nudge.

[00:01:42] And so, and so I'm waiting and I'm waiting and I'm waiting. But I feel very, very frustrated with this, you know? And, um, this is like a general thing, you know, like, but for me, as I was listening to the other interview of the musician guy, I don't know his name. Uh, it is, I don't know his name.

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[00:02:03] Zane: On my channel or

[00:02:04] Dorota: on your channel, right.

[00:02:05] Yeah, yeah. Was it

[00:02:06] Zane: with Nic? Was it a younger guy? Was it, or,

[00:02:09] Dorota: uh. Was, was it

[00:02:12] Zane: video or no video?

[00:02:13] Dorota: No video. No video.

[00:02:15] Zane: Oh, it might have been Giovanni. Maybe.

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[00:02:18] Dorota: Maybe, maybe. Yeah. But it's not, he's written there. But I would forget in, or, or I remember Nikki, because you know, my son's name is Nikita, so. Oh, okay. That's so easy.

[00:02:29] But, uh, the thing is that the biggest fear here is to be seen. Mm-hmm. And it has been, you know, uh, perpetuated for, you know, almost all my life. And the being, because being seen was dangerous.

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[00:02:47] Zane: Yeah.

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[00:02:48] Dorota: So that's why, you know, even when I am, I, you know, um, try reaching out to everybody, you know, to you and so on, the body is reacting very heavily.

[00:02:59] Yeah. So this is, uh, it ha you know, it used to be total repression. Now I, I can go up, but it's always going with. Like, um, it's very, very, um, strong. So you can start shaking. You can have, you know, stomach pain, you know, dizziness. You know, it's like, it's like imagine trying to cook at dinner and, and have such reaction, so. Right.

[00:03:30] And so I, there are also two parts because there is a, like I was trained, you know, conditioned in life to follow obligation. Mm-hmm. So when, when it goes to, you know, any obligation, I am totally effortless and I am observing it, how it is totally effortless. There is no person there. It is just flowing, you know, so it is, I think it's a good asset because, you know, even whatever I do as an obligation, I don't have like resistance to it.

[00:04:02] It just goes, but when it goes to anything that I want, like want, you know, the desire or inspiration, like dancing, painting, going into nature, this is like going through, you know, thorns and, you know, bushes, thorny bushes and stuff. Yeah. Very, uh, very strong. Uh, but it's not that mental 'cause mental goes later, but I, uh, uh, as a, I think this is frozen energy here, right?

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[00:04:33] Zane: Yeah. Yeah.

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[00:04:34] Dorota: That is, uh, you know, um, it's very, you know, in the body. So it, it's like you want to, you know, you want to have fun, but you have to, you know, uh. You are feeling like you're going to die almost. Yeah. Yeah.

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[00:04:51] Zane: I've been there.

[00:04:52] Dorota: Yeah. Yeah. I even, you know, uh, uh, lately, I, uh, I woke up, I know, like a month ago, and it was like the two words, no more, no more.

[00:05:02] And there was just like, just no more, no more feelings about, you know, that it's good or bad. There's no more of this. So I decided to schedule for myself, like freedom time that I can do anything. Test, like playing with dolls, you know, just like a, I'm not playing with dolls, but you know, as if a child done all the obligations and she can play doll with dolls.

[00:05:29] Because for me, my life is all, all obligation, you know, everything. And then I am resting just to get to, to be, you know, rested for more obligation. So I decided this is going to be like a totally free time. That I can do whatever, you know, uh, guides me. Mm-hmm. So I might be dancing. I, I might be, you know, it is very funny energy

[00:05:55] I have actually, you know, I can make different sounds. I can laugh like crazy and so on. And, but a thought came, why don't you paint? And there was a, you know, and I said, said, okay. And immediately the energy was like, I, I, I had to lie down. I said, oh my goodness, this is so heavy. This is so difficult. And I said, please guide me.

[00:06:19] Just please guide me. Please guide me my true nature. You know, just to, just to do. And it was interesting because these feelings, you know, I was with the feelings. I al also, you know, somehow it's finding the fine line between when you are succumbing or not.

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[00:06:38] Zane: Yeah.

[00:06:39] Dorota: Because this, this is so overwhelming physically that, you know, it's like you are, you are like dropped in the mud, right?

[00:06:46] So

[00:06:47] Zane: yeah,

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[00:06:47] Dorota: and I was just guided to do things without any thoughts. So I prepared everything and once I prepared there was total silence. There was just like, okay, I can do this. And I was just simply enjoying it, you know, normally just without anything. So this is like in a nutshell. Yeah.

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[00:07:06] Zane: Yeah. Well that's, that's good.

[00:07:08] And I mean, you seem very clear just in the way you speak, like you seem like really clear on a lot. Um, and like you said, you experienced self-realization and like, that seems totally true to me. Like I think you're totally clear on that. Um, and I think you are probably a lot more clear on inspiration than you realize because you wouldn't be here if you weren't following inspiration.

[00:07:33] Like inspiration is really just that like higher nudge to do the things which feel right to do the things which feel. Mm-hmm. Which feel expansive or which feel interesting. Like that's what would've led you to David or, or led you to all kinds of things. Like maybe even like just setting aside that free time and that kind of thing.

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[00:07:53] Um, I think the, the real key, the real step forward from here, and this is where pretty much everyone gets stuck and where I was stuck in for a long time, is learning how to, to transmute the energies or. Yes. The, yeah. The, and the term David uses for that is, he'll say like, transforming the nature of experience.

[00:08:12] Mm-hmm. Um, and one of the important keys to see is that the lower mind. Is, it's inherently conditional and it's inherently fear and lack based, and so it will constantly try to pin conditions to everything. Mm-hmm. And it will try to pin conditions to effortless being or to non-duality or flowing isness or whatever word resonates the most for you.

[00:08:43] They really all mean the same thing. Yeah.

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[00:08:44] Dorota: I love isness right now, you know? Okay,

[00:08:46] Zane: well me too.

[00:08:48] Dorota: That works. Yeah. Yeah. Isness is simple. Yeah,

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[00:08:51] Zane: we'll use that. Yeah. So it'll, it'll, it'll try to pin conditions to isness to where it will try to say like, oh, you know, like if I feel in a lower state, then that's counter to the isness.

[00:09:02] Or if I feel this going on, or I feel a sense of lack, then that's counter to the isness and so I need to do something to get to the isness to where things are okay. But the, the whole reason I like the word isness is because it makes that distinction that everything that is, is the isness. So nothing can be counter to the isness, like contraction or even fear or even separation is not counter to the isness.

[00:09:31] It's, it's all the isness. Um,

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[00:09:34] Dorota: yeah.

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[00:09:34] Zane: And so the way that you transform and transmute energies, it happens by being the isness to the contractions as they arise. And what that looks like is, is it looks like not contracting around the contraction or not fearing the fear, [00:10:00] or not reacting to the lack by trying to fill it in with something else.

[00:10:06] Um, and a lot of like. Since you mentioned like doing like different like therapies and like somatic work and that kind of thing, those things can be helpful. But the trap with those is that a lot of those are working within the confines of the lower three koshas, like the thought, emotions and physical body.

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[00:10:28] And the problem with that is, is that the root of the energetic contraction, the root of it is in the causal body. That's the samskaras Yeah. That's the tendency that will keep bubbling and keeping those, repeating fear patterns going. And so what can happen is. If we're trying to work with things on the level of the lower three koshas, a lot of times we'll get what I call like symptom soothing.

[00:10:57] Where it's like, yeah, it'll make things feel better in the moment. Like it will treat the symptoms, but it doesn't actually like, kind of like permanently release it and create that primordial energetic transformation. But that, that primordial transformation happens. It's actually much simpler than the therapies and the, the somatic work kinds of things.

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[00:11:21] 'cause those can kind of over complicate things. And a lot of times the, the therapies they work on the basis of kind of like juicing the energies. And juicing the energies, what I mean by that is like, it's where we're kind of going into them and we're kind of like fleshing them out or like it can even like,

[00:11:43] trying, trying to be with them from awareness or like, kind of like really like being with them, which can kind of like discharge some of the charge. Mm-hmm. It's like it's juicing it and then it feels better. But then there will still be this underlying sense or this underlying like preverbal sense that we're trying to get rid of it.

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[00:12:06] It's like we'll be doing the therapy from the underlying goal of saying like, the fear isn't okay, or there, there's something I'm trying to change here, or I'm, the goal is to feel better, or something along those lines. But anytime we're doing something within the confines of like that root lack, mm-hmm.

[00:12:26] Or that root sense of not okayness, that actually just holds it into place and it, it will juice it, it will make it feel better in the moment, but then it will keep coming back. Like it will. Mm-hmm. It'll keep kind of occurring so the real key is to start to tune into when you have that fear show up in the body, or you have that contraction or like that insecurity or whatever it may be.

[00:12:54] Mm-hmm. You can tune into how even that fear, even that anxiety or whatever it may be, that too is made of the isness. Everything is made of the isness. Nothing is counter to that, and so you can be the isness even to that. And then,

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[00:13:13] Dorota: okay.

[00:13:14] Zane: What begins to happen is you can look at it. From a kind of just like normal scientific level, or you can look at it from an energetic level.

[00:13:22] The scientific explanation of what happens there is basically like when you're being the isness to that, you're starting to signal to the body that those energies are safe and that those energies are okay. Even the sense of unsafety can be safe. And when the body starts to understand that the sense of unsafety is safe, that's how it starts to let go of it.

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[00:13:44] Dorota: Okay.

[00:13:44] Zane: And that's, that's why they say like, what you resist persists because that it really does. Yeah.

[00:13:51] Dorota: Yeah. That's true. Yeah. And the life is just in the mirror of your mind.

[00:13:58] Zane: Yeah.

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[00:13:59] Dorota: Yeah. I guess these aren't your words. Yeah. But it just dawned on me. So you know, you can hear it, but then you just feel it, you know, just see it as it is for, for what it is actually.

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[00:14:11] Zane: Yes. And the lower mind will constantly try to, hijack everything because the lower mind, all it really knows is the, the contraction and the fear, and it has that root sense of fear. So it's gonna do everything it can to try to get you to resist the resistance. And the the trick is, is because the lower mind is hooked up to your own brain, it's hooked up to your own mind and nothing knows you better than your own mind.

[00:14:42] So it always knows exactly what to say to you moment to moment, which you're most likely to believe, to get you to, to be the avoidance, or to get you to plug into some form of juicing the energy or redirecting the energy, or like basically doing something other than being the isness to the energy. Um mm-hmm.

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[00:15:07] But then the key is again, is like from the isness, you're not trying to get rid of the fear. It's being the isness, even to the fear, understanding that the fear is also the isness. And then that's how in that kind of strange and paradoxical way, that's when the fear starts to lift and resolve. Because we're like signaling to the body that the fear is safe.

[00:15:33] Like it's okay to let go of that, and then that's how it starts to unwind and open up. Does that kind of make sense?

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[00:15:41] Dorota: Yeah, of course. That you know, it, it's interesting because when I was listening after, you know, it took some, it just came to me after your inter, I listened to your inter interview with, uh, Nikki.

[00:15:53] It came to me that, because it just dawned on me that, oh my goodness, this is my energy. So, you know, yeah. This is my energy. So it was like, oh yeah. So it's can be like inviting. Like, you know, come to meet children, you know? Right,

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[00:16:10] Zane: exactly. Yeah. It's your own. And that's the thing. It's like on one end you can say it's like the demi urge or the lower mind, and it's trying to like keep you in contraction, but ultimately it's still you.

[00:16:22] It's your own energy. It's just your own energy, which you've kind of fed to fear or to anxiety or whatever it may be in the past. And then to whatever degree that you feed that, that gives it the kind of like juice or ammo that comes up the next time you're in that situation. But then the, the transformation happens by, that's why it's an opportunity each time that fear comes up, because to whatever degree that you don't fear the fear or you don't go into some form of like avoidance or resistance around it and you just fully meet it from the isness, that's how you start to

[00:17:03] disconnect your energy supply from it, or you, the other way you can look at it is you're signaling to your body that that energy is safe. And then that's how that charge becomes less and less. And then after say maybe four or five, six times of that process happening, eventually it goes away for good. Um, does that

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[00:17:27] Dorota: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:17:28] That, that, that's clear. And I think, you know, even, um, because that, that's just connected some dots that, you know, signaling to the body that it's safe.

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[00:17:38] Zane: Yeah,

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[00:17:38] Dorota: because this is, I think for this body here, it is very important, you know? Yeah. That these energies are safe. The mind was like, maybe you are avoiding right now.

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[00:17:50] I'm like, thank you for sharing, you know? Yeah. But just if, if it's not popping up this way, it'll just find a way the the other way. Right? Yeah. So it was really disturbing for me because then I went on the spiral like, am I avoiding, am I not avoiding, you know, what am I doing? You know, but still I see this, you know, I see this, but there is still identification.

[00:18:14] If there was no identification with this, it would be, I guess, easier.

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[00:18:20] Zane: Yeah. Well, and that's the, that's the perfect example of the hijacking. Like when I said, it knows you better than anything. Yeah. And it's, it'll constantly try to hijack any new wisdom or insights that you're having. So even this, it will try to hijack and to be like, oh, well things are getting better, so maybe you're being avoidant to it, kind of thing.

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[00:18:40] Yeah,

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[00:18:40] Zane: Um, but that's, that's just the hijacking, that's just the lower mind, knowing exactly what to say to you. But then really when you start to spiral and you start to bite that bait, that's the going into the contraction. That's the energetic contraction. And then also I think what you just said there about like the, oh, if I wasn't identified with it, then this wouldn't happen.

[00:19:04] That kind of sounds like a subtle little hijacking too.

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[00:19:07] Dorota: Oh.

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[00:19:07] Zane: Because the thing is, is the identification. It's not really black or white. You're probably dipping in and out of the identification all the time. Like the, the non-identification, it just happens from being the isness because the isness is that which transcends the identity, like the, so it's like you don't have to like get to this ultimate state of like, oh, there's no identification with the person, and so no energies bother me and everything is just perfect.

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[00:19:40] Like that itself can be a kind of like hamster wheel trap that will keep us stuck. Like the key is, is like the way that you break the identification or you, you transcend the identification is just being the isness to whatever is coming up. So even [00:20:00] when that thought comes up of like, oh, this is avoidant, like you, you're doing something wrong, you can also see

[00:20:07] oh, even that thought is made of the isness. Everything is made of the isness, and I don't have to plug into that. I can if I want, like it's optional. That's how, like David says, like it's consensual. But it's ultimately up to you whether or not you start to kind of go into that spiral, and the more that you break those energetic patterns or you start to signal to your body that those things are safe and that you don't have to spiral, you don't have to go into the self-doubt or whatever it may be, those invitations will go away.

[00:20:44] Like they don't, it doesn't have to be like this forever thing. Mm-hmm. It's just continuing to show up because of those tendencies, because of those like underlying samskaras, those reactive patterns. That's like the, that's like the karma. It's like the energy that we've given these reactive patterns in the past.

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[00:21:02] Yeah. And then. Those reactive patterns, they feed on the negativity, they feed on the fear. So they will try to hit us when we're most likely to, to, to plug into it and give it even more juice. But the key is, is like that too can be met from the isness. Everything can be met from the isness and you can just see it as an invitation.

[00:21:29] You can just see it as just from that like neutral, impersonal isness. Does that?

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[00:21:35] Dorota: But I think what is key here, what you're saying is because when you acknowledge that even this hijacking is in isness, this is like total Non-Duality then.

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[00:21:48] Zane: Exactly.

[00:21:49] Dorota: Cause this is just like, okay, it's fine. It's just part of me.

[00:21:53] Exactly. The, the, the, the, and that's. Yeah, that's actually beautiful, you know?

[00:22:00] Zane: Yeah,

[00:22:00] Dorota: yeah. Because there's just the removes, uh, so might, might remove. And I, that's the feeling here for me, a lot of resistance towards what's arising. That's exactly. Although it might be very, very difficult, you know, physically, you know, but, uh, but it's still me.

[00:22:19] Yeah. Like, yeah.

[00:22:22] Zane: And it's, it, it may, it may be difficult in the moment, but it's actually much less difficult than not doing it because if you don't do it. Yeah,

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[00:22:31] Dorota: exactly. Yeah. That's true. That's

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[00:22:33] Zane: true. Like, like the avoidance kind of, I've described it before, the avoidance. It's kind of like a moment's worth of numbness for a lifetime of suffering versus being the isness to the energies.

[00:22:45] It's kind of like a moment's worth of intensity for a lifetime of freedom. Yeah. And it's like that's a much preferable option. And no, no matter how intense the energy is exactly like you saw, you can always meet it from the isness. There there is no duality like the, it's everything is the isness and it, that charge will become less and less it.

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[00:23:09] It will settle and become less and less. And then it's also very inspiring too, because as you start to see that it works, that's what created such a quick transformation in my life was I had never met anything with isness in my entire life. My entire life was like effort, contraction, avoidance, planning, like trying to control everything.

[00:23:33] And then I just had a very clear switch where I was like, oh my gosh. I don't have to do that. Mm-hmm. And I stopped doing that, and things started getting better. And then so I was like, oh, wow. And I just started doing that with everything. And then very quickly it created this kind of snowball effect mm-hmm.

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[00:23:50] Where all of the, the fears and the avoidances and the people and all the activities that I would normally contract around or avoid, I would just meet from the isness and they would just transform. I would start to have synchronicities come in, like new, like things would get better. I would have resolutions come in for situations that had been like that my entire life.

[00:24:12] Like magically just something would, would happen. And like, that's the, that's what happens as we transmute and like refine the energies is they're the, the, the denser energies. They, they lighten up, they open up, and then we get the higher associated experiences and it's mm-hmm. Very encouraging. Like it's very, it's kind of like,

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[00:24:34] Dorota: yeah,

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[00:24:35] Zane: sometimes I look at it, it's kind of like the universe blessing you.

[00:24:38] It's like, yes, finally, like she's on the highest path. Like, and so, so it starts to bring in like the gifts and like that kind of thing. Um,

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[00:24:46] Dorota: yeah. Yeah. And my friend used, uh, she, she says always that it's most difficult to make the first step, but when you make it, you get a kick from God. So you just Exactly.

[00:24:56] On on your way. Yeah, exactly. And this is my also feeling, uh, the, I, I, I think this is what's also, you know, driving maybe even the search, you know, for how to deal with what's going on. Because that's what I know what, you know, I listen to that the inspiration will come, you know, and you can sit and it'll feel good.

[00:25:18] But my, all, all this stuff is bad for me. So, so maybe I should just think about it. But I stopped doing all this, you know, like work. On, on myself, because it was just perpetuating, uh, the trauma, the energies I just saw it's like retraumatizing myself. But, uh, oh my goodness. I lost, I lost the thought. Uh, yeah.

[00:25:41] Uh, yeah, that it happens. Um, yeah, I lost the thought.

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[00:25:47] Zane: Oh, it's, it's, yeah, yeah,

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[00:25:56] Dorota: yeah. It's good. Yeah. I lost it. Yeah.

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[00:26:00] Zane: It, it will, yeah, it will constantly, the thing is, is like the whole thing is from the isness. You're not, you're not making a problem out of anything. And like, like with the inspiration and stuff, it's almost, in a way it can kind of be counterproductive to talk about

[00:26:22] all of the inspiration and the synchronicities and things. Mm-hmm. Because that can kind of start to form a goal in the mind.

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[00:26:28] Dorota: Exactly.

[00:26:29] Zane: Exactly. Where we're

[00:26:29] Dorota: like, yeah.

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[00:26:30] Zane: And, but if you're doing that, that itself can be a form of like projecting into the future or like resisting the moment, which will just still keep those kind of wheels spinning.

[00:26:40] Like the whole thing is like from the isness, you're not reaching for anything like inspiration and intuition. It isn't something you reach for or you kind of try to make happen. It just very spontaneously percolates into the experience as you're being the isness to life. Like as you're just being the isness, you will just naturally have intuitive little nudges to do something, and then other times you won't.

[00:27:07] Like, sometimes there may be nothing happening at all. But that's totally fine too, because that's also the isness and you can be the isness to that.

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[00:27:15] Dorota: Yeah. There are no exclusions. No rules.

[00:27:18] Zane: There's no duality. Yeah. It's,

[00:27:20] Dorota: yeah, exactly.

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[00:27:21] Zane: Yeah. And the, the isness is completely and utterly flexible. Like the, the lower mind will, it's like I said, the lower mind will try to say like, oh, well you can't do this 'cause that's counter to the isness.

[00:27:33] Or you can't, like, it may try to pin conditions. Like, like say, say like when you have. Some type of like anxiety, or anxiety or problem come up. And this is just like a simple example. You could apply it to anything but say you like to like have a cup of tea or something, or you like to lay down and that makes you feel better, the lower mind will try to come in and say, oh, well if you have the tea then you're being avoidant.

[00:27:59] So you can't, you can't do that. Like it'll try.

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[00:28:02] Dorota: Yeah.

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[00:28:03] Zane: But the whole thing is from the isness, you can do anything. You can get a cup of tea or lay down to alleviate the problem and you can be the isness to all of that. And of course, ideally it's, it would be nice to get to a point to where, say you don't need the cup of tea or you don't need to to lay down or something.

[00:28:21] But it's totally fine to take action within the lower three koshas within the physical world to alleviate problems. Like it, like does that kind of make sense? Like you can still to

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[00:28:33] Dorota: alleviate problems? Like uh, in what mean, in what sense do you mean that?

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[00:28:39] Zane: Like in the sense that say, say you're having a headache and the tea makes you feel better when you have a headache.

[00:28:47] The lower mind might try to come in and say, well, oh no, you can't have tea. You just need to be the isness to the headache and you're being avoidant, like, kind of thing. But you, you could still like,

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[00:28:58] Dorota: yeah, but it's all isness if I lie down. Right. It's just like feeling what feels best right now, you know?

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[00:29:05] Zane: And that, and, and that could be the inspiration too. Like maybe that, that, that's the thing is a lot of times when we meet the problem from the isness, that's when that inner guidance, which is the intuition or inspiration will come in, which will give us some sort of idea, which can also alleviate the problem in a different way.

[00:29:27] Like that's when sometimes like I. If you're having some sort of, again, like maybe with the headache, maybe you meet it with the isness and then you just have this random idea of like, oh, I saw this thing could help with headaches. And then you try it. Yeah. And then maybe it like really helps the headache kind of thing.

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[00:29:44] Dorota: Yeah. I think it, partially it's working for me, you know, because, uh, I am working at home and I am a master of my own time, which I love. And you know, I am working effortlessly. I know what I have to do [00:30:00] and I know I will do it. If I don't do it. And there, there, you know, there is an opportunity that I can postpone it.

[00:30:07] So, and I'm just in flowing. I will go, go to the shop, I will drink something, I will listen to something, I'll work a while. You know, this is just like, uh, it's not like I have to work, you know? Yeah. It's like, it's very flow. So it shows me, you know, that, um. I spent, you know, like, I guess last year, you know, refining it, and it, it can be refined and refined more and more.

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[00:30:36] But, uh, the, so, so I see, oh, how about a drink right now? How about, you know, some fresh air or anything, you know? So yeah, it is like, uh, an instinct, you know? Yeah. Impulse. Impulse, yeah. That's the word. Yeah. So it's quite easy. But, uh, and I noticed recently that how about, you know, how about you dance, because I love dancing, you know?

[00:31:02] And it was like, oh, maybe later, you know, not now. And so the inspiration actually comes, but it's immediately, immediately hijacked. And I started noticing, okay, whatever comes first, I do it. So, you know, but it, it requires from me, you know. It's not a good word, vigilance, but it's like not succumbing to any, you know, to, to any, uh.

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[00:31:28] Zane: Vigilance is

[00:31:29] a good word.

[00:31:29] Yeah.

[00:31:30] Dorota: Uh, maybe, maybe. Yeah.

[00:31:31] Zane: Yeah,

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[00:31:32] Dorota: yeah. But general, uh, but there is more and more clarity of such faults, so, you know, and more, more determination not to follow them because you know, these, you know, why not, you know, it's late. We shouldn't, maybe another day. Not the good weather to listen to music, you know?

[00:31:53] That's tough. Yeah. Yeah.

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[00:31:55] Zane: And it, uh, one, well that's a great example. Like, I love the dancing thing 'cause that's like exactly what it will try to do. Is it will try to hijack everything, um, and one thing to be aware of that was really significant for me is that we can have frozen energy around our inspirations.

[00:32:16] Mm-hmm. And a lot of times that's how it is. Like, an example of that for me was like, just around like starting my YouTube channel. Like I had been so inspired to like, talk about this stuff and like, start a YouTube channel and just like, talk with people and like, share the things that I had learned. Like I, I had such like an inspiration to do that.

[00:32:35] Like I, I love it like so much. But then I also had a lot of frozen energy and fear around like, putting my, putting myself out there, like, like talking to strangers. Like, like communicating, like my lower mind would. Uh, like there, there was a lot of fear around and there was a lot of resistance around certain challenges.

[00:32:55] Like the lower mind would be like, oh, well it, you know, it feels like contraction to edit the video so you just shouldn't do that. Or it feels like contraction to like

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[00:33:07] Dorota: That's exactly, if it feels like contraction, that's not yours.

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[00:33:11] Zane: Yeah. The, the whole contraction thing, that can kind of be the, the biggest avoidance mechanism.

[00:33:17] Yeah,

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[00:33:17] Dorota: exactly.

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[00:33:17] Zane: Because of the lower mind but, so, yeah. So in my case, like what I recognized was that by avoiding the contractions in a roundabout way, you actually are going into the contraction. 'cause you're holding it in place. That's like the, the real expansion is by flowing through the contraction. Like, like for me, the expansion, like I didn't.

[00:33:43] In, in order to like transform those frozen energies around, like putting myself out there and stuff. I didn't just like meditate until that went away. Like, because meditating wouldn't activate those energies. Like what would activate those contracted energies was doing the thing which activated those energies.

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[00:34:00] So like, getting on a call with someone, at first I may be super nervous, like I have a lot of fear coming up in my body and like anxiety and like, or like when I was post posting my first videos, I was like terrified. I was like, oh, like if someone I know sees this, they're gonna think I'm crazy. Like this is like, it seems crazy.

[00:34:18] And I had a lot of insecurity around it. Um, but then I just noticed how I could transform those energies. I noticed that when those energies would come up, I could meet them from the isness. I didn't have to succumb to that urge to like redirect them or like avoid them or like. Like try to suppress them or try to manage them with some sort of like healing thing.

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[00:34:45] Like that would be a big one for me is like, oh, like I'm gonna watch a David video to get in a good state to manage this.

[00:34:52]  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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[00:34:54] Zane: Like, but like when you're doing that kind of thing, it's like, again, like you can do certain things to alleviate the problem, but it's important not to do it from like the avoidance or suppression.

[00:35:05] Like Yeah. The real transformation happens by allowing those energies to be as they are and then flowing through from the isness, like, like still engaging with the activity that you feel inspired by. And so, yeah, like. For me, with the YouTube, it would be like showing up and talking to people or editing the videos or like creating the thumbnails.

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[00:35:30] And my lower mind is like, oh, this isn't very fun. Like dah dah, dah, dah, dah. But then the more that I would do those, it started to become easier. It started to, I started to refine and transform those energies. And now I love every part of it. Like I actually love editing the videos. I love making the thumbnails, like I love having the talks because I transmuted most all of those like heavy energies in the body.

[00:35:55] And so now it just comes very naturally and it's just like a creative expression. Like it's very like fun and empowering. And it's beautiful because it, it creates, instead of like the downward spiral, it's created this kind of upward spiral. Yeah. Where it's like it's feeding the expansion and it's also

[00:36:17] it's kind of like the perfect active meditation practice in the sense that it provokes a lot of my insecurities and challenging energies. But that's the greatest gift because

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[00:36:28] Dorota: yes,

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[00:36:28] Zane: as those get provoked, they can get transformed. And then when they do get transformed and you flow through them, nothing feels better than that.

[00:36:36] Like that it, you feel so like whole and empowered, and you're reclaiming that energy and Yeah. Like that's,

[00:36:47] Dorota: and then you are authentic actually. That's exactly,

[00:36:50] Zane: that's

[00:36:50] Dorota: that. You, you just, you know, no fear can stop you. You know, nothing. You just, you know, you are just showing up the way you want.

[00:36:58] Zane: And that, and that's like embodied freedom.

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[00:37:01] It's like I feel like I can go anywhere, talk to anyone, like do anything, and I feel totally free. And then the beautiful thing is that's when you start to get it's like, it's like your friend said, like, that kick from God. Or like I said, like the encouragement from the universe. That's when the universe starts to, like, you start to get, oh, sorry, it's starting to rain.

[00:37:26] I'm just gonna roll my window up here. Um, but that's when you start to get that positive feedback from the universe. Like an example of that for me was when I first started doing this channel, um, even for months doing it and like doing the thing, I had a lot of insecurity about talking about it to like normal everyday people.

[00:37:50] Like if, if anyone like asked me like, oh, like what do you do for a living or something, it would be like an instant shot to my chest. Like big anxiety, big fear. And for the longest time I had gotten so good at kind of subtly redirecting that energy. Like I wouldn't fully meet it from the isness. I would like maybe crack a joke or something, or I would, I would do something which was subtly avoiding the energy, but then that energy would keep coming up.

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[00:38:18] I wasn't transmuting it. And then I would kind of, the people that I was interacting with, I think even on a subconscious level, they may not have even been fully conscious of it, but they would pick up on that insecurity and that avoidance, and they wouldn't really, like the conversation or whatever it may be, wouldn't be like that good. I could tell they're kind of thinking like, oh, like, like, like what do you really do? But then what happened was I had a very distinct moment with my barber. And I both, I have like a love-hate relationship with my barber because I loved how he cut my hair, but every time I was with him, he would push on my insecurities more than anyone. Because I think he could kind of feel that avoidance in me and every time I would be in the chair and he would be asking me, so like, you know, what are you doing for work? Like, what have you been up to? Like what are you like, this kind of thing. And I would always avoid, I would always start, I would crack a joke or I would kind of be insecure about it. And like what,

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[00:39:17] I would find increasingly creative ways to avoid that energy. And then because I wasn't meeting it from the isness and I wasn't flowing through it, it never went away. It was like every time I would go to the barber, I just, I knew I was gonna get hit with this massive anxiety, but then I had, I had one very distinct moment where I knew it was coming.

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[00:39:37] I knew he was gonna do that. And as that feeling came up, rather than succumbing to that like split second urge to, to redirect the energy. I actually, I met it from the isness and then I spoke from there. And then I told him, I was like, oh, like, you know, like I started like a little life coaching thing, like, I call it like life coaching to like [00:40:00] people who aren't into the spiritual stuff.

[00:40:02] And I was even, I was really nervous to say it, like my voice was a little, like, it was like a little contracted and kind of thing. Like it was, I was nervous to say, 'cause I hadn't like, told someone like that, uh, that I was doing this kind of thing. But then the funny thing was, as soon as I said that, he like loved it.

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[00:40:18] He was like, oh, I could totally see you doing that. Like, that's so cool. Yeah. And I was like, oh my goodness. Like this is what I've been waiting for. And that was like the universe giving that positive feedback. From me meeting that avoided energy from me meeting that isness. Yeah. But I didn't even have any expectation.

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[00:40:34] I honestly thought he was gonna push back even harder and it was gonna be even scarier, but I was like, fine, I'll just meet it from the isness and just flow through. But then I started to get that positive feedback from the universe and then that encouraged, that's like kind of created that snowball effect of like, oh, like I can talk about this.

[00:40:56] And then now I love to talk about it, like I'll talk about it with people. And now when I talk about that kind of thing with people from that place of security and just like not avoidance, I almost always get really positive feedback. People are like, oh, that's so cool. Like I could totally see you doing that.

[00:41:12] Yeah. But when I was on the other end of things and I was very insecure, people would always push on me. They're like, oh, like are you okay? Like, are you like things don't seem.

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[00:41:22] Dorota: Yeah, but I, I, yeah, that, that's clear. I think it's, uh, we are, we are all feeling energies, but we may not be aware. So you just feel that when someone is not secure.

[00:41:33] Because when someone asks me, you know, what you like doing and so on, and I'm telling, you know, I like drawing and painting and I say it in the way, like, I would like to hide and not say a word, you know, because there is so much insecurity about it. Yeah. That, and, uh, on the other hand, uh, because I keep returning to this because this is something, uh, that I really love doing, you know, I really like it.

[00:41:58] It's very visceral. It's very, you know, it's like, it's a creative process. It's, it's something, you know, very nice. And I have maybe the best memories when I was a kid from it. There was so much curiosity. You know, curiosity is just amazing because you are just Oh, oh, wow. Yeah. You're just open, playful. So, uh, I guess it was hijacked, you know, even making, making it a desire.

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[00:42:24] It was like, you know, hijacking it. But, and maybe I would just lose it, but I had an experience some, some years ago when I was going through, you know, painting classes and there was, it was, you know, when I was, because there was, uh, I, I always felt, you know, like, I, I'm not enough. I not deserve, I'm not good enough, blah, blah, blah, the usual.

[00:42:47] And yeah, sorry. And, uh, I remember there was some, you know, very, very difficult, um, um, you know, thing to, to draw. And I said, oh my goodness, how am I going to do this? Right? But, you know, uh, I, I, I said, okay. And in one moment. It was like the body was a tool. The mind was sitting on the couch, you know, looking at what's going on in here, and the body was drawing on its own.

[00:43:14] And then I, you know, it, it was, it stayed this experience, it was just like a one time experience when there was like, you know, it wasn't, you know, it was just as if you took a robot and someone drew through a robot. It was like this, right? Yeah. There was no me, there was no, no nobody, there was no like, oh, maybe this color, that color.

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[00:43:33] Not like. The mind was totally on the side. So, and then I realized that I don't have to learn it, that it's in me.

[00:43:43] Zane: Yeah.

[00:43:43] Dorota: That it is just so effortless that it can be just, you know, so, so that's how it began, you know, always that I have this in me, you know?

[00:43:53] Zane: Yeah.

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[00:43:54] Dorota: It hasn't repeated in this way, but, uh, when I am you know, going around, you know, the, the feelings, so going around. So I'm like a spy of, of my own mind, so I'm just going to do this, you know, I'm just going to do this. Whatever happens, I truly enjoy it. It's, it's really nice. Yeah. Yeah. So this is, um, and um, but again, all the conditioning is still my energy, so.

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[00:44:22] Zane: Exactly.

[00:44:23] Dorota: Yeah. So that, that's the most important thing. And you know, I'm not saying I have to do it, you know, for li like I don't have a concept that it has to be done eight hours a day. I have to be an artist. Nothing like this, just make it be as effortless as eating a banana or cooking dinner, you know?

[00:44:42] That's all. Exactly. That's the only thing I want from it, that's all. Yeah. Yeah. So,

[00:44:47] Zane: yeah.

[00:44:48] Dorota: Yeah.

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[00:44:49] Zane: And you, you can totally ki what creates those kind of higher experiences where it feels like it's just totally and utterly coming through you. What creates those, it has to do with the subtlety of the energy from moment to moment. Because like the personal mode or kind of feeling like I am doing that, that's a more kind of grosser or denser energy.

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[00:45:15] And so it creates that like slight resistance. But it sounds like what happened when you had that experience was there was kind of just a complete and utter surrender. You probably didn't even have the word isness back then, but it was kind of a complete and utter surrender to the isness of like, okay, I'll just do it.

[00:45:33] And it's like you were fully meeting it from the isness with no expectation. Yeah, no agenda, no anything. And then that's when it started to like effortlessly happen. Um, and you can get to a point to where that can happen consciously more and more often, and you can even kind of invoke it. Like you can kind of learn how to subtleize the energies and get to those higher states.

[00:46:00] But the paradoxical thing is the way that

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[00:46:04] Dorota: not to try to do it.

[00:46:05] Zane: Exactly. The way that you get that to happen is to not be trying to make it happen. Yeah. Because if you're trying to make it happen, that's a grosser energy. Yeah. Which will impede the flow. But like,

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[00:46:17] Dorota: yeah,

[00:46:17] Zane: the key is like you can just engage with the activity, even if it's challenging from the isness.

[00:46:23] And that's when a lot of the times very spontaneously, the flow kind of starts to refine and expand and then we'll like tap into those kind of like really intuitive and like, just like, like it almost feels like channeling or just like very flowing like creative processes. Um. And like my own little version of that is like with like editing the videos or making the thumbnails.

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[00:46:50] Yeah. It's like a lot of times I start off doing it and I'm like, I mean there's a sincere inspiration to do it. Like I want to do it. But like, especially starting off, there's kind of this sense of like, oh, this isn't very fun, like that you don't really like, and then I like, oh, you need to watch a video to like figure out how to do this and it's this whole thing.

[00:47:08] But then I would just do it even if it was challenging, I would just do it from the isness. And then randomly there would be certain moments where it's like you kind of tap into this like higher intuitive flowing thing and then that's when a lot of times you just like very effortlessly creates something that's so good.

[00:47:26] You're like, oh, like this is like exactly it. Yeah. And you can start to have that more and more, the more that you just meet life from the isness. 'cause you'll be, that's how you refine and like expand the energies and, and like that would just naturally happen more and more. The more that you're not succumbing to those, those energetic contractions and like feeding them with by contracting around the contraction.

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[00:47:54] Yeah,

[00:47:55] Dorota: yeah, yeah. The only thing is that, that, uh, I have to, you know, mind my mind because it'll create a project out of it, you know? Yeah. It's a mission, you know, and yeah, it'll take all the do's and don'ts and stuff, so, yeah. But, uh, uh, generally, you know, for this last 10 years of work, I realize that there are no methods, you know, that are lasting.

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[00:48:21] You know, you, yeah. It, it, it can be really frustrating, you know, when someone says, oh yeah, this will work for you, for sure, it'll work for you. No, it doesn't. It might be making some openings, but if you're going for the root, which is, you know, our true nature, if nothing stays for me, you know, for, for forever, you know, my mind will, you know, hijack everything.

[00:48:43] Yeah. Very creative, you know, and I think what I am noticing, because, um, I get, you know, uh, you could call it mind chatter, but this is a creative mind chatter. Mm-hmm. So it'll take an idea and start creating different solutions. What can be the, because I am actually very creative. I am, you know, like I'm doing dinner, so I'm just putting something, presenting it in a way that's, that's what's been here for a long time, my whole life.

[00:49:14] But my mind, I think because I am not doing too much of creation, because of this sitting stagnation and stuff, it took over some of this energy. Like, you know, it, uh, it, because this energy has to, you know, this is energy, so it is flowing. So I, I, I, I realized it, I guess yesterday that it is, yeah. All the time using, have this energy because someone has to use it, you know?

[00:49:42] So, yeah, that's, that's what came here. Me. Yeah.

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[00:49:47] Zane: And, and I mean, the mind chatter can be fine if it feels inspiring and is like kind of like creative, like you said, like that's kind of why I use [00:50:00] the word lower mind instead of just mind. 'cause we can fall into a trap of thinking like the entire mind is the problem.

[00:50:07] No, but it's really, it's not the entire mind, it's just the lower mind. Like kind of my own version of that is like, sometimes I'll be having mind chatter around like a video I want to make, like I'll start having all kinds of ideas of like, oh, like it would be nice to talk about this, and then that'll get me inspired.

[00:50:24] And I'm thinking about like, oh, but what about this angle? What about this? So

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[00:50:27] Dorota: not the only one. Right?

[00:50:29] Okay.

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[00:50:30] Zane: But in that way it's actually productive and it benefits me. Like it's, it's inspiring because it's like. Like for you that could maybe be centered around like art or something like, maybe like you could think like, oh, like what if I did this and then like, oh well I could use this utensil or like this could like, or I did this before.

[00:50:48] What if I remet it with like that kind of thing. Like that kind of thing is really productive for my videos. 'cause that's where a lot of like the ideas and kind of inspired structuring of the, the videos flow from, if that kind of makes sense. Whereas with

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[00:51:05] Dorota: inspired structuring. That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:51:07] It's

​

[00:51:07] Zane: because, yeah, because sometimes like before I could kind of get in this thing of thinking like. Oh, well, if it's gonna be a good video, it has to be completely and utterly channeled. I can't even think about it.

[00:51:20] Dorota: Yeah, that's, that's my idea.

[00:51:21] That's my idea.

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[00:51:23] Zane: That's a hijacking and that's a land that's a conditional landing.

[00:51:26] 'cause the thing is, is like that's the lower mind will try to pin conditions to everything. So it will say like, oh, well you can't think about it because then it will be distorted by the personal mode and dah, dah, dah, dah. But the whole thing is, is that can be fine and that can actually be good. And that's what a lot of the greatest artists and musicians do.

[00:51:49] Like a lot of the musicians and things, they're thinking about what they're creating 'cause they love it. Yeah. Like they're thinking about like, and that's like, that's been so productive for me with the videos. That's like, because before I would sometimes. It would take me a lot longer periods to make a video or to like, do anything.

[00:52:09] 'cause I would get frozen up in that of thinking like, oh, well I can't think about it. I just have to wait for lightning to strike or something.

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[00:52:15] Dorota: Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's true. So this is actually a creative energy, you know? Yeah. Being trans. Oh my goodness. I, I don't want to suppress it. You know, I was watching an interview, uh, by Rick, Rob- Rubin, uh, with an artist.

[00:52:30] Oh, I love Rick Rubin.

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's amazing. Yeah. And he has his, uh, own channel because whe when I was watching an interview with him, I thought he might be doing good interviews, and it turned out he has a channel. Yeah. So, and he was, uh, doing an interview with an artist and asking him about his process.

[00:52:49] And this guy said, you know, first I see the whole picture in my mind. I just see everything and I just then go and paint it. I do it differently. That's what's, you know, coming up rising. But sometimes I get ideas, you know, it would be nice to have this here, this here. And then I'm like, it's not flow, it's not, you know, it's not true.

[00:53:09] Exactly. That's because there again, some ideas put how it should be.

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[00:53:14] Zane: Exactly. It's it, but everyone has their own like completely unique process and that's what makes it beautiful. Like for some people that genuinely might be their process where they don't think about anything and then just randomly lightning strikes.

[00:53:29] But for someone else, their process, they might love the planning and the structuring and the, and different people have different kinds of minds. Some people have more of like an engineer, like a mathematical kind of mind, or some people have like different kinds of things. And like, it's like if you're an engineer or something.

[00:53:49] I kind of want the engineers to be thinking about things.

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[00:53:52] Dorota: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So that the lightning don't strike doesn't strike.

[00:53:59] Zane: Yeah. It's like, yeah, that spontaneous creation can be great, but if you're making a bridge, let's make sure that you also like, think things through kind of thing. Like think about Yeah.

[00:54:12] Dorota: Yeah. It'll be good.

[00:54:14] Zane: Yeah.

[00:54:15] Dorota: It's total inspiration from a lighting strike. Yeah.

[00:54:18] Zane: Yeah.

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[00:54:19] Dorota: It'll be funny. Yeah, that's true. I have, you know, but I, uh, like this about the mind because that's an interesting, uh, view, because I have also like, uh, I don't know if I, if you want to design a process, for example, right? Or mm-hmm.

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[00:54:42] To redesign something, whatever, uh. You ask me how to do it, I just go into a space. It's just an empty space. Questions are popping up, you know, it's like, you know, and then I just get an answer and it's just so simple, you know? Yeah. So, so I am refining all the processes at home. It's just so natural. Oh, maybe doing you're crazy.

[00:55:08] Yeah. But yeah, that, that's, that's how I'm doing. And when I, you know, I have a 17-year-old child, uh, son, and the way he does it, I said, oh my goodness. It's not efficient at all. No, you can, we are in totally different flows, right? So,

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[00:55:24] Zane: yeah.

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[00:55:25] Dorota: Yeah. But it's interesting, you know, talking about those different types of mind that it's not like the, you know, the specific is, is also, you know, an asset.

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[00:55:36] Yeah. Let's call it like this. Yeah. It's, yeah.

[00:55:40] Zane: Yes. Yeah, because we all, we all have like unique processes and that's what makes life beautiful. Like that's kind of the beauty of unity and non-duality is that it doesn't fit us all into one box of saying like, oh, we all have to wait for lightning to strike.

[00:55:56] It actually enriches the individuality. Like in a strange kind of way, it pulls out your uniqueness. 'cause it starts to give you that permission to follow what feels right to you. And it's like, like for me, like it feels right to think about the idea sometimes. Like the key is, is like I'm not doing it from a place of lack and fear where I'm like, oh, I need a video and so I need to plan really hard to like make it happen.

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[00:56:22] It's more so like, it's almost kind of like in my own way that is the lightning striking where like a lot of times it'll be a conversation like this. Will get me like inspired and then for the rest of the day, I'll have, I'll be thinking about things of like, oh, what if I said this? Or like, what if this came in?

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[00:56:39] Yeah, yeah, yeah. This and this and that. Can, that'll like form into a video, like kind of thing. And like, that's been the most powerful thing that I've found is like fully, fully giving yourself permission to flow with whatever feels right, whatever feels inspiring, like completely unconditional. Um, and just being aware of that sneaky little mind that it constantly tries to pin conditions and say, like we said, like, oh no, you can't think about it. That's wasted energy. You have to wait until it just channels

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[00:57:09] Dorota: perfect. Yeah. That's interesting. That's interesting. Yeah, because I, because when we are talking, uh, I, um, I'm thinking if I have, uh, you know, too many thoughts like, uh, going from condition to mind in like, uh, fear, fear-based mind. When approaching stuff.

[00:57:35] Dorota: Because I may not approach something like, you know, I may be sitting through something, but, uh, uh, when I have to do something, I don't approach it from this because, you know, sometimes we just need the mirror to see that maybe that's what you have is not all, all bad or, you know, or wicked. I don't know if you understand what I mean here.

[00:57:56] Uh, just like with the mind I said about this mind, you know, that is creating, you know, and it's really creative, you know, it's, it's, yeah. Comes up and, mm. And you said you have something similar, so Yeah, I would pin it, you know, I thought it's, you know, it's not so good. It's over. Right, over productive.

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[00:58:18] Yeah.

[00:58:19] Zane: A a lot of times that sense of it not being so good, that that itself can be the fear that itself can be the Yeah,

[00:58:26] Dorota: yeah.

[00:58:26] Zane: The contraction of like,

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[00:58:28] Dorota: yeah. That, uh, such comments. Of course, they, they may be contracted. Yeah. I'm, I'm sure that, yeah. You know, when I, when I have to approach something, you know, the fear arises, but mainly, you know, we've worked some contracts in, in your jobs, because I'm a freelancer, but then I said, okay, whatever.

[00:58:46] You know, yeah, I can do this. Yeah. Why not? Let's try it. I'll see whether I, whether I like it or not. You know, sometimes I just say no, because something is just not good, you know, it doesn't feel right. But I wanted to, to ask because there is another concept about it, about, uh, the sovereign decision. Yeah.

[00:59:10] Yeah. Because it just feels so, so, so big and there's a confusion that is this like, can I sovereignly decide or is it from, where is it from? You know, if I get, you know, all those mixed feelings in, in the body. So, uh, can I say just, you know, from now on, I'm, I want to devote myself to this and see what's happening.

[00:59:38] Can you know, or should I wait for lightning strike? I guess I get an answer with the question, but,

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[00:59:45] Zane: well, it's, it's a balance. Like the, the thing to see about sovereignty and like, like free will and that kind of thing is that sovereignty is true from the level [01:00:00] of isness, like from the level of non-duality. And from the level of isness,

[01:00:08] the isness isn't trying to like control and coerce things. Mm-hmm. Like the lower mind can kind of try to hijack the idea of sovereignty, of thinking like, oh, well if I'm sovereign that, this is an extreme example, but you could apply it to other things of thinking like, oh, if I'm sovereign, then I should just be able to like materialize an apple right in front of me or something.

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[01:00:30] Like if I'm the sovereign infinite being, I should just be able to bend reality to my will or something. But that urge to control things in that way, that's actually coming from the lower mind, that's not coming from the isness, like from the, the sovereign nature. Um, but ultimately you are the sovereign being like you are, you have like the kind of ultimate authority

[01:00:59] over your experience, but it's not in the way that the mind thinks. Like the mind conceptualizes sovereignty as control, but it's more like the opposite of control. It's more like that ultimate flow of being able to be with whatever is arising, like no matter what is, just always meeting life from the isness.

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[01:01:20] And then from there you do have the ability to, to take inspired action. Like that's following the inspiration or the intuition as it arises. Um, and like one, one kind of, it's kind of a little cheesy, but like I've heard people say that I like is that they'll say that like, God or the universe doesn't give you what you want.

[01:01:44] It gives you what you need.

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[01:01:46] Dorota: Yeah.

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[01:01:46] Zane: And that's kind of what life is always doing. Like our higher nature, our sovereign nature. Say we're going through a challenging experience, the lower mind will come in and say like, oh, well, if I was sovereign, I would just make this challenge go away or something. Yeah.

[01:02:01] But a lot of times when we're having the challenge, that's because our higher sovereign nature knows that's exactly what we need to get us to that next level to get us to that next progression. Like my version of that with the YouTube was like, I would think like, oh, well when I'm really there, I will just channel this perfect book and I will just be like, Eckhart.

[01:02:23] And there won't be any fear, there won't be any challenges. Like everything will just magically happen. But that whole thing was actually coming from the control and fear of facing those insecurities. Yeah. Like the real juice and like bliss and like expansion for me has happened by flowing through those, those challenging energies.

[01:02:44] And the key is, is like I'm engaging with the challenges that are associated to my inspiration. Like I'm not just like, it's important to engage with challenges, but I'm not just doing challenges. Like, it's not like I'm going and like deep sea diving for the sake of challenging myself. I mean, that could be fun.

[01:03:03] Yeah. Like if that's what you wanna do, but

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[01:03:05] Dorota: it's fun actually.

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[01:03:06] Zane: Okay. But you that yeah, that could be, but you know what, or like, I'm not taking an engineering class that I have no interest in. Like I'm engaging with the challenges that I feel that I'm being guided to like, and which are associated, uh, with my thing.

[01:03:21] And like, kind of like a quick example of that that I think is important to give related to David. I actually, I heard this from Jessica, the lady that wrote

[01:03:29] Dorota: Yeah. I, I know Jessica.

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[01:03:31] Zane: Yeah, yeah, yeah. She, um. On her. I was listening to one of her videos that she put out on her channel and she was talking about how in one of her private conversations with David, she asked him if he was nervous before he did his conscious TV interview.

[01:03:45] Yes. And he told her that he was so nervous before that first interview that he thought he was gonna pass out. Yes. Like, like and, and the, but I think that's so important for people to hear because the lower mind will think like, oh, well if I feel nervous, that's contraction. So I just shouldn't do it. But like,

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[01:04:03] Dorota: yes,

[01:04:03] that's the trap.

[01:04:04] That's the trap.

[01:04:04] Zane: Even David, David was terrified to do the interview. Like he, like the great David. Like he was

[01:04:10] Dorota: Yeah, the great David was terrified.

[01:04:12] Zane: Yeah, exactly. But he showed up and he faced those challenging energies from the isness, and then I'm sure it got better. And now probably by the time he did that next one, he probably didn't care.

[01:04:24] Or maybe he did, maybe there was some nervousness, but he met it from the isness and. Yeah. And that's like,

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[01:04:32] Dorota: but what if he, you know, what if he quit? You know, what if he that could, you know, the events would be different. Right, exactly. I'm not saying it wouldn't, you know, and that the way it is. But, you know, we could, we can see that, that he could have avoided it, you know?

[01:04:48] So,

[01:04:49] Zane: and yeah, who knows, maybe he would've never gone on this great, amazing path. Maybe he would've just stayed in avoidance and just, yeah.

[01:04:58] Dorota: Maybe, or maybe, you know, li life still, I think pushes you because that's what I'm feeling here. Uh, you know, I am living, you know, uh, somehow in a bubble, you know, right now, because I needed this time, you know, because my, my life, you could say, you know, on, on some point, 10 years ago, everything broke, broke, everything just wiped out everything, you know, marriage, company, house, everything.

[01:05:24] So I was left with, uh, uh debt, which still there is still some left here for me and my son, you know, and no means of leaving. So it was a very difficult situation. So I devoted actually, you know, with total determination this time to go, you know, to for truth, because this was, this has always been, you know, truth, the root of everything was just for me.

[01:05:54] And the, you know, the journey is funny because you just think the root is there, there, there, there, and you just come back, come back, come back to yourself and you, uh, today even, you know, merged the dual, uh, you know, view of, you know, even the contractions and, uh, and so it's, you know, it's subtle because this,

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[01:06:13] Zane: yeah.

[01:06:14] Dorota: This differences are quite subtle and I know that the way my life is structured right now, it has been serving me, but not anymore.

[01:06:26] Not anymore. I feel, you know, I feel that, you know, that the, the need here for me is just, you know, to go out to express, you know, to share also, you know,

[01:06:37] Zane: yeah.

[01:06:37] Dorota: Whatever, however and so on. So, but when I think about it, it's always, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know, you know, it's quite com comfortable to say, I don't know, because then you don't have to do anything.

[01:06:50] Right?

[01:06:50] Zane: Exactly.

[01:06:51] Dorota: Yeah. Yeah. So this, I don't know, you know, uh, banner has been floating here for, yeah, for quite some time. But I have to do it also because I am a translator and, you know, my job is, you know, getting extinct. You know, the rates are going down with ai, AI and so on. Of course, a fantastic tool, and it'll be replaced, you know, in most, in most uh, cases.

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[01:07:16] But there is also a need to, you know. You know, to, to not to stay in, in the ground all the time. You can just, you know, pop up. Yeah. You know, and show yourself. So that's, uh, I I will call it divine inspiration right now. Yeah, yeah. Quote unquote. Yeah. But this is the, like, the most difficult thing. It's just like, you know, jumping out of the nest.

[01:07:43] But if to compare to all the previous experiences, you know, of life, which have been quite challenging, some traumatic, you know, very difficult. I, I think this shouldn't be, you know, this should be the best one.

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[01:07:59] Zane: Yeah.

[01:08:00] Dorota: Yeah. Especially that I don't have ambitions, you know, to do. It's just like a, there is like a desire to express, you know, just to, to change, I don't know.

[01:08:11] And then the mind comes and says. It should be a lightning strike. You will know for sure. You know, you shouldn't, you know, you, you shouldn't devise anything about it. So it's a tricky

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[01:08:22] Zane: Yeah, yeah. Well, and it's, it's all the isness, so it's all safe no matter what. It's, yeah. And it's, it's, um, and it's like, I like how you, you talked about the, the challenge and how it did serve you to a certain extent because that there, there is a real beauty in the challenges and that's something I've heard David talk a little bit about is I've heard him say like, there's two general phases in life.

[01:08:50] Like there's, uh an outer breath phase, which is where we tend to be getting more of those worldly results. Like the, yeah, a lot of the things that the, the character tends to associate with success. But there's also an inner breath phase where that's more so a spiritual opportunity where a lot of the worldly things are getting stripped away.

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[01:09:10] A lot of times that's where we are being challenged and where we may have attached certain identifications to certain jobs or conditions or financial status or whatever it may be. A lot of times our kind of infinite higher nature will start to strip those away to kind of challenge us, but there's a real beauty in that. Because what it does

[01:09:32] is it takes away those conditions that you've set on your fulfillment and on your safety, and it, then it begins to show you that those outer things, which you thought you relied on, you don't actually need. Like, you don't need them. You can find peace and flow and inspiration and creativity with none of that stuff.

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[01:09:51] And then that's so empowering and so encouraging because it, it's, it's much more unconditional. You realize you don't need that [01:10:00] stuff. And then in a very strange and paradoxical way from there, when you realize you don't need that stuff and you start to, to flow without it, a lot of times that's when a lot of the, the, the conditions start to get better.

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[01:10:13] That's when a, a lot of the things start to flow. Um, and relating to kind of feeling like, uh, you, you, like, there's, there's no ambition or, or no um like idea, like what step to take. There's kind of a balance because I mean, you don't want to go and just like do a bunch of things from like fear or lack, like sometimes you may be being guided to just take it easy and kind of just see what arises.

[01:10:42] But it also kind of sounds like you are kind of having a drive to like step out and like do some things. And what I have found is that it can be very, very powerful to just start stepping forward. Like even if we don't know where to go, like like that was kind of like for me with the YouTube channel, it's like I really didn't know what I was gonna do with the YouTube.

[01:11:03] I didn't know anything. But I just finally, I just like recorded myself talking for like 30 minutes about random stuff and I just uploaded it. And the videos weren't even like perfect. They weren't like that amazing. But having at least stepped forward a little bit, the benefit was it actually inspired my next step and it gave me clarity.

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[01:11:22] Okay. Because even the things about it that I didn't like, I could be like, oh well. You know I didn't quite like this. What if I did it this way? Like by at least stepping forward it gives you some clarity and then you can pivot from there and you can, you can be utterly flexible. Like you may be like, okay, well maybe I'll just take it easy for a bit.

[01:11:40] Maybe I just shouldn't have done that, but at least still then at least you, you know, you got that energy flowing a little bit and you've got a little bit more clarity. Rather than, it can be a very alluring trap to get frozen up where we just wait and wait and wait for lightning to strike. Like sometimes.

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[01:11:57] Dorota: Yeah, exactly.

[01:11:57] Yeah.

[01:11:58] Zane: Yeah. We can speed up the process by kind of just like, even if it doesn't feel perfect, even if the, it doesn't feel 1000% aligned, if we're just feeling something in a particular direction, it can be useful to just get out there, you know, to just do something and then that can start to like clear things up a little, if that kind of makes sense.

[01:12:19] Yeah,

[01:12:19] Dorota: yeah. Yeah.

[01:12:20] Zane: Yeah. Yeah,

[01:12:21] Dorota: yeah. I understand. Yeah. I, I, I, yeah, that's, yeah, because otherwise you are just, you know, sitting in the same soup all the time. Exactly. You know,

[01:12:29] Zane: waiting

[01:12:30] for new soup and

[01:12:31] it's

[01:12:31] like, there's like,

[01:12:32] Dorota: yeah. Waiting, you know, maybe someone will, you know, fish you out all day. Yeah. But I, I, I think that, you know, um, by, um, this, this actually I think touches on a big trap, you know, here comes my social, you know, uh, uh, nature, you know, that there are so many people trapped in this, in spirituality, you know?

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[01:12:57] Mm-hmm. So many people that, you know, we are waiting for the perfect moment. And, uh, that's, that's, you know, when you're, you, you have like energetic mastery, you know? So I guess this is because this is grounded and yeah, this very, you know, difficult to ground spirituality. You know, uh, right now, although I had a thought today, it, uh, that I don't like what the word spirituality.

[01:13:29] Yeah. Uh, because it's actually what's real, so

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[01:13:34] Zane: Exactly. It's more real. Yeah.

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[01:13:35] Dorota: It's more, it's actually what's real and the rest is hypnosis so, so, you know, and, and there was another one that you may hypnotize someone and then they go into reality, you know, like going un-hypnotized, you know, you hypnotize someone to, you know, un-hypnotize them from their, you know, identification with with mind.

[01:13:59] So, yeah.

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[01:14:00] Zane: So, and this, sorry, but

[01:14:03] Dorota: yeah. Go, go, go. Just the thought just came to me. Yeah.

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[01:14:07] Zane: Well, and I was in that for years, like for, from. 2019 after I had my big awakening in 2019, I had a few month period where things were amazing and I wasn't in- like, I was transmuting things. I was taking action. I think it was so good because I never learned anything about spirituality.

[01:14:25] Like I was all like self-help, discipline, take action, that kind of thing. And then I had a very spontaneous awakening. And so I was kind of blending the two where I was still very grounded in doing things. But I was merging that with like the surrender and the flow. Yeah. And the isness. But then what a lot of it that started to get me trapped was like getting really into the manifesting stuff.

[01:14:48] 'cause I would start to be like, oh, like you know, I need to get to a really high frequency and then I'll manifest all of the perfect things and that kind of thing. But it, that can make us very avoidant. 'cause I would start, I started to become very avoidant. I wouldn't engage with challenges. And then the spirituality is such a cunning trap because it's like.

[01:15:11] We're being told that this is like the highest path, like this is like the highest thing. So it's like why would you ever stop being avoidant if you think that you are at like the peak of the mountain top or something. Like it's, it's like, and then the spirituality, it's full of the most creative strategies of avoidance that you could ever imagine.

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[01:15:33] Dorota: That's true.

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[01:15:33] Zane: That's a lot of spiritual people are like, like that's what I would do is I would find incredibly creative ways to avoid my fears. Like I, I would just like think like, oh, well it's, it's energy and I'm so sensitive to the energy and I'm feeling that I shouldn't do this. And I had this synchronicity that told me this, and then I saw this video.

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[01:15:56] Dorota: Yeah. You know, and the Mac fell on the floor. It means I shouldn't do this because I was just living home, you know? And this is a sign from the universe, you know, and just, you know, yeah. Yeah. This is, this, it's a, it's an, an enormous trap, but I guess it's all fear based, you know? Exactly. Of actually going into new life, you know, going authentically.

[01:16:19] Yeah. Yeah. So, so, but I, I re my remember this fault because thi this is something that is in me that I know. I just know that when I leave the comfort of avoidance, let's call it comfort mm-hmm. Everything will work. I just know it, there's just like, you know, that's, that's what, what it's like, you know, you know that the paradise is here, you know, just get up.

[01:16:46] Just get up, you know? Yeah. But, um, but also, as Jessica said, you know, when she started doing the videos, she noticed that the energy gets transmuted faster and faster.

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[01:17:00] Zane: Exactly.

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[01:17:01] Dorota: Yeah. So it, it also got me thinking that when you just move your ass, it'll start, you know, working. But I wanted to, you know, to, to be sure about this transmutation and not to have enemies here, you know, arising.

[01:17:15] So very, thank you so much for, you know, merging it into non-duality, because it's very important. It's like, you know, and also about, you know, like spiritual states, because my favorite one is neutrality. I love it.

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[01:17:30] Zane: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[01:17:31] Dorota: And not, not everybody likes it, but I love it because it just, you know. You are just resting and I, I, I love the rest.

[01:17:39] You know this.

[01:17:40] Zane: Yeah.

[01:17:40] Dorota: This, this natural rest. I'm not saying I don't like, you know, joy and, you know, higher states, but this one is most accessible also, you know, just like you are yeah.

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[01:17:52] Zane: I, I find that the neutrality, it's very, very grounded and stable.

[01:17:57] Dorota: Yeah.

[01:17:57] Zane: Because I had, I had a real aversion to neutrality.

[01:18:00] Like that was one of the biggest things David helped me with was just like, through his videos, understanding that neutrality is the basis of it. Because I was so into the manifesting thing, I would think like. Oh, like, you know, I need to be up here and if I'm not up here, then I won't get the good things.

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[01:18:17] But then that whole thing would actually reinforce lack, because anytime I would have a low frequency come up, I wouldn't meet it from the isness or the effortless impersonal being. What I would do is I would very, very subtly suppress it. And then I would try to channel a higher frequency and I would get myself into like higher states.

[01:18:36] Like I was really good at like, like I would listen to a video and go for a walk and visualize, and I would be feeling amazing, but then I just kept spinning on this hamster wheel. Like those energies weren't being transmuted because I wasn't fully meeting them from the isness. I was still subtly like trying to like redirect them and like avoid them.

[01:18:55] And like,

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[01:18:55] Dorota: yeah,

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[01:18:56] Zane: basically saying that they're not okay. And when you say that they're not okay, you're signaling to the body that they're not okay. And so they're gonna stay like, but it's you. You can meet anything from the isness no matter what is coming up. Um, and yeah, I love that example from Jessica.

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[01:19:16] That's exactly what I meant, like with my channel and with the upward spiral, like in the sense that it provokes a lot of my challenges and insecurities, but it's the greatest gift. 'cause it gives you the opportunity to meet those from the isness. Yeah. And then it's, it does create that accelerating and then it's very encouraging.

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[01:19:35] Like now I'm actually kind of excited when I notice that I'm avoidant about something because I'm like, oh, like this is like,

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[01:19:42] Dorota: yeah,

[01:19:42] Zane: this

[01:19:42] Dorota: is not, you're like settled in this, that it's not a problem to meet it. Right, exactly. Yeah. So like the, the heavy stuff has, you know, come through, let's call it like this, the heaviest like in, in, you know, in feeling, you know, 'cause that's actually all the same.[01:20:00]

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[01:20:00] Zane: Yeah, and, and there's just this complete and utter knowing that it works. Like this isn't just like an idea or something. It's like I've seen it so many times now that I know like, this is what it is. Like this is how it happens. And this is exactly what I was doing in 2019. I just didn't have the language to describe it, but like, when my life was progressing and transforming the most, it was that mix of like, I was taking action, I was involved in the world, but I was meeting it from the isness, like I was meeting it from that ultimate non-duality.

[01:20:31] And so the energies were transmuting and refining, and then. Yeah, there. It's, it's the most amazing thing.

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[01:20:37] Dorota: I, I think the only thing, the only, uh, thing one, I will say two things because I might forget. Subtlety. That's what you're mentioning. Because the subtlety has been like following me for some time, and because it's, um, yeah, it's, you know, the mind is not that subtle, so, you know, the, the subtlety of energy is that it, if you could say something about it.

[01:21:03] And the other one, I, I keep forgetting, so Yeah. I just, that's normal, you know, it'll come after five minutes. Yeah.

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[01:21:12] Zane: Right.

[01:21:14] Dorota: The subtlety, because, uh mm. Yeah, something about it. Subtlety,

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[01:21:22] Zane: thinking about things in terms of subtlety rather than expansion really helped me for a long time because when I would think about expansion, I would think of like this big explosion of energy kind of thing.

[01:21:33] But really like subtlety and expansion, it's the exact same movement. Like the more subtle the energy is, the more expansive it is. And that's how you get to those higher states. Like kind of my own version of what you were talking about, how you had, uh, that moment during the art where it felt like it was just completely coming through and it was so just like channeled almost.

[01:22:01] I would have certain moments like that, like when I was more in the seeking and the avoidance, I would. A lot of times where I'll have my, like real heightened like subtle spiritual experiences will be during like my walks like, like I love to like go for walks and that kind of thing. And before,

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[01:22:18] Dorota: yeah, I

[01:22:19] noticed.

[01:22:20] Zane: Yeah.

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[01:22:24] Um, but before, when I wasn't clear on this stuff, I would only really have one of those like really rich, like unity, like heightened like kinds of experiences maybe like once every six months. Like if I watched like the perfect video and everything settled and I like went out and I like everything was perfect, I might tap into it for like 30 minutes and I would be like, oh, like this is, this is what, this is what it's all about.

[01:22:52] Yeah. But then what would happen is I would start to build conditions around it. And I would, I wasn't understanding what was getting me there. I thought I very subtly needed to do something to get there. And then So that would be a grosser energy.

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[01:23:06] Dorota: Yeah,

[01:23:06] exactly.

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[01:23:07] Zane: Which the thing is, the thing with the subtle, heightened experiences is they're actually always there.

[01:23:14] They're never not there. It's just that you can't cognize them. You can't perceive them when your perception is being clouded by grosser energies. And like grosser energies are like, like seeking or like efforting or like contracting around this or like trying to get to the spiritual state. But what's interesting is I, once I started to recognize like that subtle side of it and I started to recognize the isness and just not, not seeking for spiritual experience. But rather just

[01:23:51] fully, fully, fully meeting the present moment exactly as it is, no matter what's coming up. The more I would do that, nowadays, those heightened experiences that I would only have once every six months, I have that every single day now, like every day that I go out, almost that happens. Like I have amazing like unity experiences where it feels like, like I am the trees and like the trees are waving at me and like there's birds and like wind and there's just like this unbelievable, like beauty and richness to the experience.

[01:24:27] Um, and I think it's just because like I stay with that subtleness so much more and I don't, I'm never reaching for it. And some days it doesn't come. But the whole thing is like, I, I never. I never succumb to that urge of thinking like, oh, it's a bad day today. Like,

[01:24:49] like, so

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[01:24:49] Dorota: I was flying low.

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[01:24:51] Zane: Yeah, yeah. Like, because there's, there's natural waves and things to life and that's totally fine, but that's like the beautiful thing. Like the more that I came to, to accept. The lower days exactly as they are. That's what creates that kind of vertical process where the lower days become higher and the higher days become even higher.

[01:25:13] But it happens completely effortlessly. It doesn't happen from reaching or, you know, finding the perfect video or something like that can be helpful.

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[01:25:21] Dorota: Yeah.

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[01:25:21] Zane: But it's like, yeah,

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[01:25:22] Dorota: but I, I'm not reaching for the states, uh, somehow. Yeah. You know, if something happens and happens, you know, I, I live in a beautiful nature, you know, area in, although in, in, in the city, but it's just, you know, I'm surrounding, I have a park, I have a small forest, I have birds, you know, coming and, you know, so, uh, and I truly love nature.

[01:25:43] This is the best work of art. That's amazing. Really. That's just like oh so enriching, but about higher states. The, the, the one thing, maybe the last one, I guess was that I, uh, there was always a feeling that I shouldn't leave the human behind. This human experience here is important. And it shouldn't be like, you know, it's not like you are going to spend time somewhere high.

[01:26:11] And here we have like total destruction, uh, you know, destruction. destruction. Yeah. Yeah. So there, there was always like, this human experience is important. And I think from the point of view of transmitting energy, actually, that's why yeah. We are here actually. So, yeah.

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[01:26:34] Zane: Yeah.

[01:26:34] Dorota: It's nice to, although I have also, you know, working and you, you know, experience is such a challenge, like losing all this stuff or, you know, having something, you know, broken or whatever.

[01:26:46] I didn't have anything broken, but, you know. Yeah. So, yeah.

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[01:26:51] Zane: Well, and my experience has been, I, I think if I understand you correctly there. If, if your lower mind is kind of telling you that the higher experiences are counter to the humanness? I would

[01:27:05] say that's actually,

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[01:27:06] Dorota: no, no, it was before. It was before. Oh, okay.

[01:27:08] It's not like it was before. You know, when I, when I could just like, you know, stay somewhere, you know, high, but here, yeah. The life was just like totally stagnant. You know, nothing was going on, so, so you can just rest somewhere, you know, in the, in the clouds and, you know, you know, the body doesn't matter.

[01:27:25] Nothing matters. You know?

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[01:27:26] Zane: Yeah. And that's, that's kind of like what, when I talk about like the dissociating, like that's kind of like, it's kind of like dissociating from the body. And that's what I was talking about when I said how I would subtly suppress the lower energies, but then I could channel really higher energies.

[01:27:42] That's like what I was doing. Like I could get to these high states, but I was totally disconnected from just the humanness kind of thing.

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[01:27:49] Dorota: Yeah.

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[01:27:49] Zane: But now it's like, now that it's really embodied, it's, it's funny 'cause I find that it's actually. The way I describe it now, I, I, I feel more human. Like, I feel more like human.

[01:28:02] I feel, and I feel one of the most beautiful transformations that's happened post David now is I feel now that I'm more in embodied and I'm more like in this humanness I feel so connected with all of humans. Like, before I would kind of get in this thing of thinking like, oh, like I love to talk to the spiritual people, but you know, this guy, like

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[01:28:27] Dorota: the usual

[01:28:27] stuff.

[01:28:28] No.

[01:28:29] Zane: Like, yeah. Like that's kind of, eh they're a little icky or something. Yeah. But now from here, like from this real, like embodiment, I connect with everyone and like, I, I like it. I feel so connected to all of humanity, and that feels so much better. That feels so much better than just like. It's actually a very like fragmented and separation based experience to be saying like, oh, I only like the spiritual people, like kind of thing.

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[01:28:58] Dorota: Yes, yes, exactly.

[01:28:59] Zane: It's, yeah,

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[01:29:00] Dorota: yeah. You might feel, you know, better connected with someone. Although, you know, I had an experience an old lady, you know, I met at the clinic today and we were just start, started chatting, you know, and we had such a beautiful chat, you know, about children, grandchildren, world, everything, parties, you know, and it was, and I was like, oh my goodness, I'm speaking like to myself, you know, effortless with effortless speaking, you know, and you could see, you know, so much aliveness in her, you know, she was like 70 something, but she had an energy of a very young, you know, person and it was so nice.

[01:29:34] Just, you know, you wouldn't schedule it and it is just enough to be open. So, yeah, I'm not saying it comes out all the time, but this, this was a beautiful experience. Yeah.

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[01:29:47] Zane: And some of the most spiritual people don't think or talk anything about spirituality. Like some, like some of the most spiritual people are just everyday working people, but for whatever reason, they're just really like [01:30:00] heart-centered or they're just really like, present with what they do.

[01:30:04] And like those are some of the most amazing people. Like connecting like, just like that, that it can be that's,

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[01:30:10] Dorota: but maybe, you know, when integration is, you know, when you realize your true nature, so you're not seeking. Because if you're seeking, you are seeking everywhere. And you want to know to get, you know, maybe information you are in, in seeking clubs.

[01:30:23] Uh, and I understand it. I, I've been there with this, so it's, I guess natural and if you integrate it, you're just enjoying your life.

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[01:30:32] Zane: Yeah.

[01:30:32] Dorota: It just can be. But you know, I, I realized, you know, while we are talking, uh, also that, uh, um. I, I might have maybe more clarity than I realize. I'm not saying like I'm totally clear, but, uh, it's, it was like, again, how to say it that yeah.

[01:31:00] The, the mind is very judgmental about it. Yeah.

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[01:31:05] Zane: And it, it focuses the most on the strengths. Like, I like how David talks about that. Like our, our greatest gifts and strengths are the most prime targets for hijacking because the lower mind. It fears the clarity because it knows that that's kind of like the death to the lower mind in a way.

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[01:31:21] Dorota: Yeah.

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[01:31:22] Zane: Yeah. So it like the, if you have a ton of clarity and like potential for sharing or just whatever it may be, that's like prime target for, for hijacking. Yeah. But you, you seem super clear. Like, you seem super clear and even like, I mean, the whole way through, like you seems super, like settled and everything.

[01:31:40] Like you don't come across as like really avoidant. I mean, maybe it's just the setting or whatever, but,

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[01:31:45] Dorota: you know, the, uh, um, I think that the, the biggest avoidance is about, you know, the things that I desire, not, you know, that's, that's what make me, you know, joyful.

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[01:31:58] Zane: Mm-hmm.

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[01:31:59] Dorota: Yeah. That's how that, uh, that's, that that's part of the conditioning, you know?

[01:32:02] Yeah. Because that was always, you know, regarded as not this and it, sorry, it just stayed like this, you know? Although I, I. I was always, you know, doing everything to, to, you know, to pursue it. But, uh, you know, I didn't know at the time, you know, that all this, let's say bullshit was not true. Yeah. No. Yeah. So, so, you know, it, it stops sometimes when it, when you, you have no idea that is not true.

[01:32:34] Mm-hmm. So it's more like a struggle than joy. Right?

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[01:32:39] Zane: Yeah.

[01:32:40] Dorota: And so, um, and then if you add to it spirituality that you have to wait for a lightning strike and stuff, it,

[01:32:50] Zane: it's

[01:32:51] a hijacking

[01:32:52] Dorota: Yeah. You're just, you know, sitting and doing everything effortlessly. The, the life is actually effortless, but nothing is changing outside.

[01:33:00] So it was just like. Why, why is it not changing? Why the energy should be flowing. I'm so effortless, you know, everything should be changing, but I'll wait for some more. Maybe I'll, you know, so, so it's a trap actually. It's a big, big, big, you know, trap.

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[01:33:18] Zane: Yeah. It's

[01:33:19] Dorota: a big trap. Yeah. And thank you so much for your clarity, you know, and your beautiful energy.

[01:33:25] Really. Thank you so much. Yeah, that's amazing.

[01:33:28] Zane: You too. Thank you. It was great. It was, yeah, it was awesome.

[01:33:32] Dorota: Yeah.

[01:33:32] Zane: Yeah.

[01:33:33] Dorota: Really, yeah. And the, the thing is that it's not wow. It's subtle. That's what, you know, the, the feeling is really subtle, you know?

[01:33:42] Zane: Yeah.

[01:33:43] Dorota: The, the, the mind was, you know, devising scenarios, what it'll go, how it would go and so on.

[01:33:49] But the subtlety and simplicity, you know. Beautiful. Thank you very much. Yeah.

[01:33:56] Zane: No problem.

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[01:33:56] Dorota: Yeah. Yeah. It's, yeah. I'll let you know. I'll let you know about my successes.

[01:34:02] Zane: Yeah, I'm curious. Yeah, it was,

[01:34:03] Dorota: yeah.

[01:34:04] Zane: Amazing.

[01:34:05] Dorota: Let's enjoy them.

[01:34:07] Zane: Yeah.

[01:34:07] Dorota: Thanks.

[01:34:07] Zane: Beautiful.

[01:34:09] Dorota: Yeah.

[01:34:10] Zane: Awesome.

[01:34:11] Dorota: Thank you. Awesome.

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[01:34:13] Zane: Subtlety is subtlety and simplicity.

[01:34:16] That's like,

[01:34:16] Dorota: yeah,

[01:34:17] Zane: yeah. Subtlety, simplicity and isness. That's like the big three. That's,

[01:34:21] Dorota: yeah. Yeah. SSI.

[01:34:24] Zane: Oh,

[01:34:26] Dorota: that's,

[01:34:28] Zane: that's

[01:34:29] funny.

[01:34:29] Dorota: Yeah. That's funny.

[01:34:30] Zane: Or, or ISS you could say isness subtlety and simplicity.

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[01:34:35] Dorota: Yeah.

[01:34:35] Zane: So it's

[01:34:35] iss ISS

[01:34:37] Dorota: It's good. Not good. Good it's not IRS.

[01:34:40] Zane: Yeah.

[01:34:42] Dorota: Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. That's so, yeah. That's so clear.

[01:34:47] Thank you.

[01:34:48] Zane: Awesome. Yeah.

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[01:34:49] Dorota: Yeah. Fantastic. So yeah, you can call this, this recording ISS. Yeah. You know, that's my mind. It's already creating, so yeah. That's creating. Yeah.

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[01:35:01] Zane: I like it. That yeah. That's good creativity.

[01:35:03] That's, yeah, that's, yeah.

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[01:35:04] Dorota: Yeah. Yeah. This is, yeah, this is, uh, really active. You know, for me, sometimes I'm creating on the flow, sometimes no, not, and when I'm talking to somebody, they don't understand what I'm saying because they don't follow the process. And I'm like, oh, here, this then, and, and, and I'm, you know, I'm all in the flow of, you know, something is getting, getting created, you know?

[01:35:26] And some, I have a friend who said, I don't understand. I don't follow your mind. I have no idea what you're talking about, what's going on. You know? And I'm like, ding, ding, ding. Yeah. But it's funny. Thank you for this because, you know, I wanted to to, you know, squash it somehow.

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[01:35:41] Zane: Yeah. Well, no, I follow your mind. And like I, to me, you seem like you have like a great mind.

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[01:35:46] Like you seem smart and like that may be one of your greatest gifts. Like that. It's kind of like, like that was my own version of that. Like I have the same kind of mind where I actually like to think things out and kind of have these like ding ding, ding ding like kind of things. And embracing that has been the greatest gift for me.

[01:36:03] And that's kind of been like my superpower. Like I think that's part of the reason why I, I can like kind of talk about these things in a U unique way. 'cause I do that where I think things like through kind of thing.

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[01:36:14] Dorota: Yeah.

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[01:36:14] Zane: I think like, oh, well what if from this angle and then from this angle and then like kind of thing and like, so yeah, like I say, if it feels good and it feels inspiring, like flow with it.

[01:36:24] Yeah. Like, like,

[01:36:25] Dorota: okay. Okay.

[01:36:25] Zane: Yeah.

[01:36:26] Dorota: Yeah,

[01:36:27] Zane: yeah,

[01:36:27] Dorota: yeah. It doesn't shut up. So it's,

[01:36:30] Zane: you may as well embrace it. Yeah. See what,

[01:36:33] Dorota: yeah, exactly. Thanks. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah, that's what I, I'm saying, you know, sometimes you don't realize that this is an asset, not, not a nuisance. Right.

[01:36:40] Zane: And

[01:36:41] Dorota: it's, yeah. So,

[01:36:42] Zane: and the lower mind tries to hijack all of our greatest gifts.

[01:36:45] Like, if that's a great gift, it will try to turn that against itself of thinking like, oh, I can't do that. That's counter to this. Like it, yeah.

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[01:36:54] Dorota: All those concepts. Yeah. You know, all those concepts. That's what I'm really, you know, that's what I said, that it should be called reality, not spirituality.

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[01:37:02] Zane: I love that

[01:37:03] Dorota: it's, yeah.

[01:37:03] Yeah. And hypnosis, you know, or trance or whatever, but really reality because what is real, you know what is actually real. Yeah,

[01:37:13] Zane: yeah,

[01:37:13] Dorota: yeah. And the, you know, you live, live a real life. Not a you know, hypnotic, you know, whatever repressed life, you live a real life. So

[01:37:24] Zane: more real. Yeah. It's,

[01:37:25] Dorota: yeah, yeah.

[01:37:25] Zane: And very, very human.

[01:37:26] Yeah, it's very,

[01:37:27] Dorota: yeah, yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Not hidden, you know, and so on. So that's why, you know, I am a rebel by nature, so

[01:37:36] Zane: I love it.

[01:37:36] Dorota: Lets call it reality, not spirituality. Yeah, I like it. Yeah. Okay.

[01:37:40] Zane: It was so good to meet you. Yeah. It was awesome.

[01:37:43] Dorota: Thank you so much also.

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